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Simon: good afternoon and welcome to the conference room. I’m joined by Dan Elli. Dan is the managing director of Townsend Search, a retained executive search firm that focuses on accounting and financial services recruitment. He joined Townsend Search back in 2013 and brings deep business understanding, informed by career experience in public accounting and consulting

Prior to Townsend Search, Dan was the senior professional with two regional public accounting firms, then joined the transaction services team, of Plante Moran. And specialized in performing financial due diligence services for acquisitions by private equity firms. He’s got a business administration degree from Western Michigan University and is a registered cpa, so you can probably understand how excited I am to talk to him

Dan, good afternoon and welcome to the conference room.

Dan: Simon and good afternoon. Thank you for having me. Looking forward to our discussion today.

Simon: Great stuff. So all heroes have an origin [00:01:00] story and you are the hero of our story. So tell me, how did you get from graduating university through a career in finance and accounting and due diligence and now like me in the trenches in the executive search space?

Dan: Yeah, great question. I grew up in an entrepreneurial family. My father and grandfather bought a manufacturing business back in the late seventies and really grew up inside that business. So I had a early passion for, business itself. So got my accounting degree, spent the first portion, first eight years of my career, sending upward through public accounting and consulting

Focused on working with privately owned middle market companies across a variety of different industries, and really wanted to do sub pivot my career and do something more entrepreneurial. I always enjoyed networking and connecting people and working with clients to solve problems and find solutions, and, had the opportunity to meet [00:02:00] my colleague at Townsend Search Group

Who, I’ve been working with now for over the last 10 years, and really started learning the operations of, executive search and the process, and slowly evolved my skill set into, managing full cycle desk recruiting to business development. I’ve spent a lot of time working on our firm and its growth as well as refining and optimizing our processes and how we go about searches

We’re based in Detroit, Michigan, and Northern Michigan, but we do national searches. We have the capabilities to do that and , a far reaching network. So, it’s been quite a journey getting into executive search, but, I find it a lot of fun and still share many of the same clients that I have in public accounting, that we work with now

So, I’ve been able to, further enhance those relationships as well. So it’s a little bit about my backstory.

Simon: Great stuff. So what was it that [00:03:00] inspired you to leave the world of accounting and then cross the chasm to recruit for that world?

Dan: The path in public accounting for me would’ve been continuing to ascend and do a partner level spot

and actually when I had gotten married, I talked to my wife about, trying to find something different, more eat what you kill, more entrepreneurial, whether that was starting a business or buying a business. But I had always knew about our firm’s reputation in the market, specifically Peter Bridges, my colleague and, saw opportunity to get into that industry and help support their growth

He was looking for. Someone to help with succession planning and the future of the firm. And so , it worked out beautifully in terms of timing, and it was, brand new to me. I had to learn executive recruiting inside and out. But I committed, my wife was very supportive of it, and I jumped in with both feed, really adding value where I could

And,[00:04:00] just shadowing. Folks in my firm and learning things from the ground up. So I guess it was really my entrepreneurial spirit that led me into this profession. And, public accounting consulting was a great foundation. I learned so much about business that, if I had that experience, I wouldn’t be in the position I am today

So, I guess we all don’t know what our endpoint is on the journey, but, things evolve and you take the opportunities as they come in front of you. And, we’ve been very successful so far in our journey here at Townsend.

Simon: Great stuff. So, as we both know, the recruitment industry is incredibly varied

Okay. And, I come from a search background as well. My recruiting business is in cyber security. So, and in the cyber security world. And I would imagine also in the , accounting world, recruiting forms, a number of different models, whether it’s [00:05:00] contingency, whether it’s kind of contingency with like an element of exclusivity through to retained

Okay. So from your perspective, Why do your clients work with a retained model as opposed to a contingent model?

Dan: Yeah, that’s a great question.

Simon: And not just cause we’re the best and we’re awesome. I mean, from a, from model point of view, what’s the advantage? How do you frame the advantage to them?

Dan: Yeah. I think when it comes to retain, you’re gonna be prioritized. There’s gonna be a level of commitment that you won’t get with contingent. So, I always say if you work with a retained firm, you have one throat to choke. You have someone that will take that off their plate and run a process to deliver a successful placement

So if you’re going contingent, those shops are usually good at giving you resumes. Internally, they’re not wired to [00:06:00] collaborate. They’re competitive against each other. And because of that, it lowers the priority of your search cuz they’re all competing against each other. The probability of them finding success is low

With us we take more of an approach like an investment bank where you retain us, we consult with your business to learn it inside out so that we understand the story and the vision that you’re taking to market. And then we proactively approach people after we conduct a thorough market research to make sure that we’re complete with the population we’re contacting

So just the level of detail and thought that goes into our process is highly customized, and as a result, we keep digging until we see results. It’s not like we throw a job posting up and hope and pray that the right person is. Wandering along and trips on our job posting. We’re out there calling people that are happy in their position, and we come with them with a better opportunity and we’re able to recruit [00:07:00] because of that

So, I truly think that retain search is the best approach. If you’re committed to filling the role or the position, you can control the time of the process. There’s a lot of variables that come into play. And you get a more responsive result. So there are situations where a contingent firm is the right solution, and we have clients that we will work with exclusively on a contingent basis

Meaning exclusively, they’re not using any other search firms, we’re not competing against anybody else. So, it’s not who can sprint with the quickest resume, it’s the marathon who can get the right results. And we realize that doesn’t fit everybody’s need. But we’re the type that we don’t work on a high quantity of searches

Marker

Dan: They’re all high quality, and as a result, we always deliver. So, I tend to think even in our case, it’s a little bit of a hybrid. There’s some firms, like the big firms, Korn Ferry, et [00:08:00] cetera, they charge absurd retainers up front. Our retainers there is about a third of the fee upfront, and then the remainder is contingent upon US delivery

So there’s that initial upfront investment from the client to line interest to make sure they’re committed and invested and we can, get a response out of them when needed. But it’s still on us to deliver and we have to work towards that remainder. So we’ve found a lot of success in that, in that structure

But great question, Simon

Simon: Sorry about that. I put my phone on, mute that out. Sorry about right. So, It’s really interesting because, first of all, I agree wholehearted with everything you says, and, and in fact, I would even go further because, in our [00:09:00] industry and, and, I don’t know much about the accounting industry. I’ve never, I’ve never, recruited insider

I’ve done the occasional kind of FD job for, you know, for cyber, but I’ve never really done, any, accounting recruiting. But as far as I’m concern, I think that, contingency recruiting is destroying the cybersecurity market. I really believe that, and I’ll tell you why. If you look at the cybersecurity market, if you go, just go on LinkedIn and look at

Sales, sales, engineering, technical roles, consulting roles. You’ll see there are lots and lots of people that have got quite short hops. Okay? 18 months here, two years there, six months here. And even if you discount Covid and the. Economic, challenges that that presented. You still see a lot of people that have, have, have, kind of moved around

And I do not believe anybody when they were nine years old, thought, dad, when I grow up, I wanna be a job hopper. Okay. [00:10:00] Nobody wanted to do that. Okay? And I genuinely believe the reason why people make a series of hops is because they were poorly advised through the recruiting process. Okay. And I think that if you have a candidate put into a position, okay, then the person that’s got the least amount to lose if it all goes belly up, is a contingency recruiter

Because typically they’re giving very small, if any form of guarantee on their work. That’s part of the cost of working with a contingency recruiter, right? It’s like, oh yeah, we’ll guarantee. Month or two. Right. So they’ve got the least amount of skin in the game when it comes to that person being successful

Okay. The problem is that the company will take this person on. If it doesn’t work out, then they’ll find ’em after six months, or if the person thinks this isn’t really for me, and they move on. Alright? And the problem that, that, that, and the reason I think for a lot of that is that it just creates almost like [00:11:00] a, a, a wash of people that

On job boards, they’ll respond because they’re not particularly happy cause they’ve been in their own job. They’ll respond to, immediate reach outs from, you know, or the kind of open to work thing from, from recruiters. Okay. So the class of people that you and I would work with who are happy where they are and would only work, would only move on because the work that, because you are offering them a better opportunity

And typically there’s been where they are for three, four years or more. Okay. Those people are working with the likes of you and I. Okay. The problem is that contingency recruiters are getting the low-hanging fruit and it just perpetuates the problem more and more and more. And in, in my opinion, the reason why, certainly my industry, I’m interested to hear if you feel this, this, this also mirrors in yours

I think the reason why there are so many people that have got so many short stints on their resume is simply because of a broken recruitment process that. Wholly [00:12:00] at the feet of contingency recruitment and the people

Dan: who use it. Yeah, a couple things there. I would absolutely agree. When I was in public accounting and consulting, I was amazed at the recruiters and the lack of professionalism when they would reach out and their lack of understanding of business

It was very transactional, very focused on the recruiter and their. And our model is completely different. It’s all about the client. It’s all about collaborating. As a firm, we guarantee our placements, so we have to stand by them. I don’t want the wrong person to be placed because then I have to go to back, back to the market to find a replacement

I’m guaranteeing that. So it creates a lot of alignment to make sure that we have the right person in place from the get go. If we have to keep searching and digging and make it makes our job harder than, than so be it. That’s why we get paid a solid success fee. [00:13:00] So I think that the contingent chops, don’t that they, ill advise the, the candidates because they, they don’t play the long game

They’re not focused on the relationship. We are focused on the relationship. We do play the long game. We have candidates reaching out to. Just letting us know they’re gonna be passively looking in the market, but they won’t go on job sites. They won’t talk to the contingent shop. So they’re organic proprietary leads that we can introduce to our clients

And that’s, one of the values that a, a retained shop can bring as well. It’s just those long term relationships with non-job hoppers or, or people that do truly, value our, our guidance and expertise. I didn’t have anybody giving me advice back in my public accounting days. There’s nobody you can talk to in your organization

You can’t talk to your boss about making a potential move. So I view my position as [00:14:00] able, being able to help the accounting and finance professionals understand the market, understand their options, educate them on compensation trends that we’re seeing. I didn’t know private equity existed when I started in public account

Now we spend probably 80% of our time working with private equity equity firms and the companies they’re acquiring to build out their accounting and finance team or find their first cfo. So, I find that just helping to provide that knowledge to people, even if it’s just free advice, what goes around, comes around

And that’s how we get long term relationships in our business. The contingent chops are very short sight. Very transactional. Yeah,

Simon: absolutely. And, and, I remember, one time, I mean, my career, I started out doing, contingent recruit, I think most of us do. And I remember there was one time where I advised a client, Not to [00:15:00] take somewhat one of my candidates who was about to offer for a job to, and you know, you know, and it doesn’t smell right

You know, we’ve all had it, you know, it doesn’t smell Right. Right. And, and I advise my client not to, not to, not to. Offer this my own can, you know? Cause it was like, I dunno, this is gonna stick. You know, I think he’s gonna take it, but it’s not really what he said he wanted at the outset. I think he’s desperate

I think he’s more desperate than he is letting on. So, and the last thing I want Mr. Client, is for him to join you and then in six weeks time, he gets the job he really wanted and then he is off. Right? So, And I remember a colleague of mine turned around and I was relatively junior at the time. He turned around and absolutely gave me a to lashing like, it’s not for you today

It’s up to them, blah, blah, blah. I really kind of went nine yards and I, I went to my boss, who was a fantastic guy. He, it was a real mental to me, and he said to me, if you don’t think [00:16:00] it’s. Even his view was, even though we’re contingency, we still work like a retained firm. So the companies will give us their natural loyalty

It’s a model I don’t think would work today, but back then it did. And, and he, he, he absolutely stood by that approach of, if you don’t think this is right, but. He did remark that it was very much the exception rather than the rule in that market. You know, I’m, I’m not, it’s something actually, I, I say to my, my clients that, hit the two have been using contingency recruiters

When was the last time a contingency recruiter ever told you not to hire on their guys?

Dan: Well, we actually find yourself in that position all the time, and it makes our job more difficult, but it’s the right thing to do for the client. A hundred percent. And. As a recruiter, candidates tend to open up to us

You know, we’re kinda like the, the bartender where people just come in and just unload everything and open up right away and tell us their [00:17:00] motivations and what they’re happy about, what they’re not happy about. They’re not gonna tell that to a client, interviewing them directly on their own. So we’re able to find behaviors, understand transitions, and, and really try to find that alignment to make sure that it fits, it will fit long term

Before we even present a candidate, or maybe even before we even present an opportunity to them, just let them describe their, what they aspire to do in their career. I think that that really helps being that intermediary between the client and the candidate. Cause we’re here to create a win. And, and that’s our job, is to bring two parties together to find success

And if we don’t think that one of the parties is right, we’ll, we’ll, we’ll nuke it. Or will we continue to, to drill into it. So I think assessments can help with things like that. Sometimes you don’t know until someone starts, and that’s where a guarantee can be really helpful.

Simon: Yeah, for sure. And it’s [00:18:00] interesting actually, when you talk about that kind of bartender or that kind of trusted, trusted advisor, and oftentimes we’ll be sitting and will be the kind of trusted advisor of that, the candidate going through the process and the trusted advisor of the client that’s looking for that skillset

And it can sometimes be, opportunistic. To tell each side what we know the other side wants to hear. Okay, so we, so we sometimes have the. The, the opening, if you like, to be that kind of, to manipulate and exploit that situation. And I think that, again, if your goal is I just want the fee, I wanna make the short term win, it can be very, seductive to tell the client, if you wanna land the candidate, he’s like, even though it might not be true, tell him this, this, this, this, and this

And say to the can. The client really wants this, this, this, this. Make sure you tell me you can do that even if you can’t. Okay. The beauty I think of, of a [00:19:00] retained and a more long-term relationship is that you never really, it doesn’t really benefit you to do that because you’ll know that, that even if you don’t fill that, this role with this particular can, You’ll just have to spend some time, you’ll find another one where with contingency, if you don’t place this role without Canada, the other shop it will with theirs

Mm-hmm. . So, you know, it, it kind of, it’s, it’s, it’s a further, weakness, I believe in the contingent model.

Dan: I would agree. And one thing to add to that. Value that a recruiter brings is, especially during negotiation, so early in the process, we’ll understand historical compensation for a candidate, what they’re expecting in their next role, and we can manage expectations throughout the process

But when it, it’s thinking, negotiating, it becomes very emotional and we’re able to,[00:20:00] delicately handle those conversations. So that we can get certain asks for the candidate. Meanwhile, we are a client advocate. They’re the one paying the fee. So we, we do side with them, but they’re paying us to bring the deal together

So sometimes it’s challenging them in compensation or, or being firm or trying to find creative ways to bring a deal together, like identifying non-economic values or leveraging geographic locations. So I think. Being that that conduit between the candidate and client can, can help increase the probability of bringing the deal together rather than trying to do it on your own

Cuz the candidate is not gonna be as open directly with the hiring manager or their future boss. But they will to us. I think a good example, we’ve, we do a lot of work in mergers and acquisitions and building out corporate development teams within companies that are growing through [00:21:00] acquisitions, and we’re often looking for investment bankers

And, two to three year investment banker out of a good undergrad is commanding, a high cash compensation right now. But for these corporate development roles, we’re able to actually talk them down in taking a reduction in their cash com because we can really articulate the career path for them if they were to go in that direction, which ultimately leads to equity in the business most often

So, Money isn’t everything. And having us involved, we can really help bridge the gap and, and even finding people that will take less money because they’re, they’re really interested in a business or the function is intriguing to them, et cetera. So, just a, another positive that we can provide.

Simon: Yeah, no, for sure

So it is interesting. Somebody, somebody I was talking to, a couple of months ago, recruitment and the search mar the search market. And an [00:22:00] observation that they made was that at the end of the day, we all recruit us. We all have access basically to the same candidate pool. Okay. However, experienced we are, however well networked, we are broadly speak

We all have access to pretty much the same pool. Okay. So it’s not necessarily, the candidates that make the difference. It’s the process that makes the difference. Okay. So where do you, where, first of all, there’s that statement that you would necessarily agree with, and beyond that, what would you highlight as the hallmarks of a good recruiting

Dan: process? Yeah, I would absolutely agree. The the process is what makes the difference. Because it’s thought out, it’s collaborative, it’s timely. There is a low supply and a high demand for [00:23:00] these candidates right now. So how you engage with them, how often you engage with them is very important. If too much time goes by, they lose interest, they move on, they have other opportunities, so, For us, I always say that we, we sharpen the acts up front, so before we even pick up the phone call and we call candidates, we consult with the client

We do thorough market research where we’re looking for certain attributes or experiences or geographies of candidates and creating a population. And then we prioritize who we’re reaching out to, to make sure that we’re complete with our, with our process. Through that you funnel the results down and the top people we present

But I really think that that process that typically takes between 60 and 90 days from start to when someone’s in the seed is the value. It’s, it’s taking that. That pressure off the client and owning the delivery of that [00:24:00] placement and managing them and coaching them through that process, it’s kinda like going to get a root canal

It may hurt and be painful, but we’ll do the best that we can to make it a pleasant experience. Yes, the fee hurts on the end, but it’s immaterial in terms of the value that that person will deliver to a. If we place a CFO at a family founded business that’s never had a cfo and that family’s looking to sell at some point that CFO could add a one time to two time turn on their EBIT s evaluation

I mean, that’s tremendous for spending half a million dollars in cash comp every year. You know, it could add up to, to millions to tens of millions of dollars. So, You know, there’s, there’s, it’s not much of a science. There is definitely an art to it, and you have to leverage your warm network and existing leads to, to mind them for candidates, or more importantly, referrals cuz they’re great resources.[00:25:00] But also make sure that you’re being thorough in assessing that current market. Of all the cold leads you have to make sure you’re, you’re engaging with them as well to deliver the best results of that time and period for your client. Cause it is about finding the right person, right spot, right situation

There’s so much that has to align and it’s, it is very much like dating. Timing is a lot of everything. And you can’t rely on just a inventory of resumes like the, the contingent shops. You need to continue to be out there watering, fertilizing, giving sunlight to your network. Cuz that, that is a lot of the value

And we’re kind of like, like surgeons. We, we not only get paid for the actual procedure, but you’re paying for the 20 years of experience leading up to that, the education, all of that. And I think people often forget that. Yeah, we had a quick idea that was the winner for a search, but we met [00:26:00] ’em 10 years ago and we’ve been in contact that entire time

So maybe it was quick, maybe one took longer. But they all kind of balance out and I I, I do think that process makes the difference and not everybody manages it as well. Yes, we have access to the same candidates. I’ll tell you, even yesterday I talked with, doing a director of finance search in Milwaukee for a private equity platform, and the candidate said, Dan, I get 40 of of these InMails a day

And I delete ’em all. But yours really stood out because it was just exciting and the story was compelling, and I, I felt the need to get on the phone. That’s how we differentiate versus the contingent shops that just spam every one of our messages is customized. Or even better if we have a phone number, we just pick up the phone and talk, call ’em, you know, people are afraid of the phone and I don’t understand why , [00:27:00] but I think it’s our, our best weapon, right? Yeah, I completely

Simon: agree. It’s, it’s interesting when you were, when you, you said a few minutes ago, that, recruitment is more of an art than a science. I did bridal, to be honest, because, in my own mind I do think that it is a science in so far as that, people say, oh, you know, it’s just a numbers game

And I believe it is a numbers game in terms of. You know, we know because we have the metrics to support it. That if we wanna, if we want to have a short list of set, if we wanna, if we wanna have, you know, the guy under spare, which is our, that’s our ultimate goal. Okay. So we wanna have a shortness of say, three or four candidates going into, you know, going into the client

Then we know how many of each stage before that we need to talk to, all the way down to how many people we’re gonna be reaching out to by phone, by email, by instant message, and so on and so forth. Okay. And it literally just becomes that funnel knowing that we’ve reversed engineered based on. Our average, our average conversion rates all the way back to each stage of [00:28:00] the, what we call in-house, the pre pipeline pipeline, right? So, so when you said, oh, it’s an nonscience, I was like, oh, you know, it kind of smarted a little bit. However, as you were continuing to talk, I was like, well, It is a science, but each part has an art to it. So you can send out a bunch of messages and we do alright, but the art is crafting each message to the right per, you know, so because you’ve taken the time to look and, oh, this put, oh, like I went to this, this, you know, he went to this school and, you know, or, or we have a connection with that guy or whatever

And making each one personal. And I completely agree that what sets the great, reach out to one that’s gonna get deleted is that ability to tell stories and also knowing that, okay, this guy went into a lot of detail on his LinkedIn profile, clearly is a detailed guy. So I’ll put more detail in that approach where this person’s very kind of bullet [00:29:00] pointed that one we’ll just down into bullet points

Yeah. That kind of thing. So, I still firmly believe that I’m gonna put my stake in the ground that it is a science. But I definitely agree with you that, that each stage in that scientific process has a huge amount of art to it.

Dan: Yes. I, I, we’re, we’re very objective, data driven, process oriented. And, and I, I agree

I, you know, I maybe step back to two steps on that one, but, it’s interesting cuz if you’re working on an executive level, If it’s a cfo, a ceo, search, everybody you call wants to call you back. They want to hear about it. So your response rate is gonna be great. It’s more making sure you’re contacting the right people and leveraging your time appropriately

So the numbers are gonna be different than if you’re looking for a senior accountant. Yeah. Well, the, you get, you, your numbers are gonna go way up on the outreach because there’s gonna be a lower response. And honestly, the [00:30:00] younger generat. I don’t think understand the value of having a relationship with a recruiter

If it were me, I even take time to, I invest time just getting to know candidates even if I don’t have an opportunity for them because 2, 3, 4 years down the road, it might evolve into something. And I think a lot of these younger folks, they just dismiss ’em, whereas they should be talking with all of these recruiters and getting to

But, but I think it, it really depends on the level of the search. And when you come down to the more junior level, the, the numbers and the outreach just have to be greater because they’re getting pummeled and spammed every day and you just tend to be noise. And that’s why ev, phone calls are better yet networking into them through mutual connections, is our, one of our greatest advantage

Yeah,

Simon: absolutely. And you know what, I completely agree. When you said, it’s amazing how few people wanna pick up the phone anymore. It, it just, I, I dunno. I started in this business in, in [00:31:00] 1997. Okay. I was five years old. No, I’m kidding. . And, and I, I. I’ve never been scared of picking up the phone

And funnily enough, how I got into recruitment, I mean, I had a couple of other businesses before that, but when I was in high school, when I basically in the evenings, I just wanted a job and my, my parents didn’t think, you know, me kind of, you know, washing cars at the weekend was, was something I would necessarily stick to

You know, I’m more of an indoors kind of guy, so, and I, I, I got a. At 16 years old, selling kitchens over the phone. So my dad has to take me to some shady part of town after school, right? and then he’d go about, do whatever he did. Then he’d come back and pick me up at like 9:00 PM 10:00 PM and bring me home

And I was making a fortune. I was making far more than I ever did babysitting, right? And I never lost that, taste for being on the phone and cold calling. 30 something years later, you know, never left me. And it really [00:32:00] surprises me that, and we’ve had to, obviously internally as we’re hiring recruiters and researchers and, and, you know, people internally, It never ceases to amaze me how reluctant people are to get on the phone

I mean, I mean, I dunno, I dunno whether it’s social media has gone, people more used to texting or emailing or they’re just scared of rejection. I, I, I dunno what it is. I’m wondering whether you see the same thing from the people that you hire, the people you’ve hired in the past, whether there’s, I don’t know what the secret is, what I’m

Well, I,

Dan: I think everybody has their preference for the medium of communication. Some are more emails, some are more phone, and it’s nice to understand people’s preference so that you can use that medium. But I, I often honestly find that, People don’t return voicemails, but they will return emails to schedule a time

So you just gotta look at what’s working and, and try all options. I mean, [00:33:00] sometimes we’re triple tapping people we’ll call text, we’ll email. And it’s, it’s not to bother them, it’s to make sure that they understand how awesome of an opportunity we’re working on and we’re thinking of them for it. It should be flattering

So I think people are just, they tend to be insecure and they don’t like rejection. And, and I understand we’re all human and nobody likes getting rejected, but I can tell, I can count on one hand the number of bad conversations I’ve had from just cold calling someone, you know, they always go really well

So, it is interesting how these, the generations are evolving. You know, we evolve with it. So,

Simon: yeah. I completely agree. So what are your top three tips for someone who wants to be successful, either as a recruiter or the top three tips you would give to a client as they’re working with you to have a successful, recruitment process?

Dan: Yeah, I mean, I think just in terms of being successful as [00:34:00] a recruiter, I would say being genuine. Being transparent, and being disciplined. You know, if you don’t have anything to do, there’s always another phone call you can make. There’s always something you can be doing to hustle. So this is an industry where you really, you have to hustle

But the rewards are great and the flexibility is phenomenal. I think in regards to advice for clients, don’t be afraid to collaborate. Be transparent. And, and you need to be responsive because once you start engaging with candidates, especially in today’s market, the clock is ticking and time kills deals

And so you need to be responsive. You need to be timely in giving feedback. Good or bad, providing feedback to candidates is closure, and even if they don’t get the job, but you give them some meaningful feedback or. They’re gonna be a cheerleader for your business out in the market. If you don’t get back to them and it’s a bad interview experience, they’re gonna tell the market that too

So, part of [00:35:00] our job is being, that, public relations person for on behalf of the hr, the, the hiring manager. So I think those would be some of my, my key tips for executive recruiters and clients.

Simon: Great stuff. And what’s next for you and for towns and such?

Dan: That’s a great question. You know, we’ve, we’ve never been a firm to seek growth, but something’s working because we we’re developing quite a big backlog of business right now

So, for us it’s just understanding how to grow smart. We don’t want to bring on, anybody that we can’t keep busy. So I think we’re just continuing to try to please our clients and give. Collaborative and customized solutions, to, to take them through the journey of executive search and placement

So, we’re, we’re trying to, just continue to professionalize our firm and [00:36:00] do actually a better job of marketing and telling the market about. What we do because it’s pretty awesome and we’ve got some really good clients and we create a lot of positive wins, so we just don’t do a good job of telling everybody about it

Simon: great stuff. Well, I’m sure people will hear their sons wanna reach out, so, and if so, how can they best do that?

Dan: Best way to reach me is, either via my email address or LinkedIn profile is, tends to be the best. So pretty simple in that regards, and I’ll certainly provide those links to you to share

Fantastic.

Simon: Yeah, we’ll make sure there, in the show notes for everyone to, to access. Dan, this has been such a joy. I’ve really, really enjoyed digging into, the, the rights and wrongs of, of recruitment, you know, the, the pitfalls and the possibilities. So, it’s been such a real joy, getting to know you, hanging out with you, and having this conversation today

So, Dan Ellis, thank you so much for joining us here in the conference.

Dan: Simon, thank you for [00:37:00] having me. Looking forward to using this as a start to building our long term relationship. So, thank you very much. Great stuff. Awesome.

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